Preview Mode Links will not work in preview mode

Welcome to the People and Projects Podcast where you'll find interviews and insights on how to deliver projects and lead teams!

Apr 12, 2024


In this episode, Andy Kaufman interviews Ryan Hawk, host of the Learning Leader podcast and author of the book The Score That Matters: Growing Excellence in Yourself and Those You Lead. They discuss the importance of valuing excellence and pursuing personal growth, as well as the dangers of comparing oneself to others and keeping score based on external metrics. They also explore the role of self-awareness and fear in leadership, and the importance of surrounding oneself with people who provide honest feedback. The conversation highlights the need for leaders to lead themselves first and develop transformational relationships.

Sound Bites

  • "The world isn't driven by jealousy, it's driven by envy."
  • "Leading yourself first is mandatory before you lead anybody else."
  • "Surround yourself with people who will give you honest feedback and be prepared to accept it."
  • "They don't care about your pants. They care about their pants."
  • "So if you're not ready to crush it, your business falls apart."
  • "The fear is fuel."
  • "How can I best serve these people? How can I give everything I got to help them to better their life?"


  • 00:00 Introduction
  • 02:09 Start of Interview
  • 02:42 You Have To Value Excellence To Develop It
  • 03:42 How Ryan's Family Influenced His View of Leadership
  • 05:51 Where Scores Help Us (and Hurt Us)
  • 10:39 What Are Some 'Outer Scoreboards' We Can Be Tempted To Fall For?
  • 13:15 About Envy
  • 14:23 You Have to Start By Leading Yourself
  • 15:21 How to Be More Self-Aware
  • 18:35 Learning How To Listen To Contrarian Feedback
  • 21:15 What Holds Us Back?
  • 22:54 Fear as Fuel
  • 28:57 A Unique Way to Identify Your Core Values
  • 32:27 What's The Quick Hack to Grow As a Leader?
  • 35:41 Applying Leadership Ideas at Home
  • 39:49 Interview Wrap Up
  • 40:24 Andy Comments After the Interview
  • 43:38 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Ryan, his book, and the Learning Leader podcast at

If you’d like more on this subject, here are some episodes to check out:

  • Episode 391, with Adam Bryan about making the leap to being a leader
  • Episode 242, with James Clear about his book on habits

AI for Project Managers and Leaders

With the constant stream of AI news, it's sometimes hard to grasp how these advancements can benefit us as project managers and leaders in our day-to-day work. That's why I developed our e-learning course: AI Made Simple: A Practical Guide to Using AI in Your Everyday Work.

This self-guided course is designed for project managers and leaders aiming to harness AI's potential to enhance your work, streamline your workflow, and boost your productivity.

Go to to learn more and join us. The feedback from the program has been fantastic. Take this opportunity to unlock the potential of AI for your team and projects.

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills


The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Tranceverse by Sascha Ende
Free download:
License (CC BY 4.0):

Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende
Free download:
License (CC BY 4.0):