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Welcome to the People and Projects Podcast where you'll find interviews and insights on how to deliver projects and lead teams!

Feb 17, 2024


In this episode, Andy Kaufman interviews Gil Broza about his new book, Deliver Better Results: How to Unlock Your Organization's Potential. They discuss the importance of systems thinking in value delivery and the six aspects of system fitness. Gil shares practical strategies for improving value delivery and emphasizes the significance of mindset over tactics. He also provides examples of successful transformations and offers resources available on the book's website.


  • Value delivery should be viewed as a system, not a collection of practices.
  • Systems thinking helps identify the cause and effect relationships within a value delivery system.
  • Understanding the effects of choices and actions is crucial for making informed decisions.
  • The Square model provides a framework for assessing system fitness and improving value delivery.
  • Successful transformations require a sequential and incremental approach, focusing on mindset and values.
  • Resources on the book's website offer additional support for implementing the strategies discussed.


  • 00:00 Introduction
  • 02:22 Start of Interview
  • 03:18 Understanding the Value Delivery System
  • 04:13 Key Ideas from Systems Thinking
  • 07:05 Avoiding Oversimplification in Cause and Effect
  • 08:03 Considering the Effects of Choices and Actions
  • 10:30 Introducing the Square Model
  • 11:55 The Six Aspects of System Fitness
  • 13:50 The Backstory of the Square Model
  • 19:04 Sequential and Incremental Strategies for Improvement
  • 21:25 The Importance of Mindset in Change
  • 22:52 Differentiating Values and Beliefs
  • 25:16 The Significance of Mindset over Tactics
  • 28:08 Helping People Navigate Change
  • 29:47 The Role of Fear in Change
  • 30:05 The Concept of 'Committed, but not Attached'
  • 32:41 Case Study: Agile Transformation in a Startup
  • 39:17 Andy Comments After the Interview
  • 42:32 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Gil and his book at The free chapter that Gil mentioned is available at

No Freaking Idea!

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Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Ways of Working


The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Brooklyn Nights by Tim Kulig
Free download:
License (CC BY 4.0):

Music: Quantum Sparks [Full version] by MusicLFiles
Free download:
License (CC BY 4.0):